<\/p>\n
Yerel banttan ve internet \u00fczerinden yay\u0131n yapan Polonya Radyosu Jedynka muhabirlerden Grzegorz Slubowski’ nin\u00a0Zakaev ile yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131 canl\u0131 yay\u0131n r\u00f6portaj\u0131n\u0131n de\u015fifre edilmi\u015f tam metni:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: \u0130yi g\u00fcnler sevgili seyirciler. Bug\u00fcnk\u00fc s\u00f6yle\u015fimizin konu\u011fu Rusya Federasyonu taraf\u0131ndan tan\u0131nmayan \u00c7e\u00e7en Cumhuriyeti\u00a0\u0130\u00e7kerya’ n\u0131n eski D\u0131\u015fi\u015fleri Bakan\u0131 Akhmad Zakaev. Ho\u015fgeldiniz Say\u0131n Zakaev.<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev:<\/strong> Ho\u015fbulduk.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: S\u00f6yle\u015fimizin terc\u00fcmesini ise gazeteci Krystyna\u00a0Redlich\u00a0Kurczak yapacak.\u00a0Merhaba\u00a0efendim.<\/strong><\/p>\n Krystyna Redlich Kurczak: \u0130yi g\u00fcnler.<\/strong><\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: Rusya’ daki son geli\u015fmeler Dimitri Medvedev’ in devlet ba\u015fkan\u0131 olaca\u011f\u0131na i\u015faret ediyor. Bir\u015feylerin de\u011fi\u015fece\u011fi konusunda \u00fcmidiniz var m\u0131 Say\u0131n Zakaev?<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev: <\/strong>Rusya’ n\u0131n gelece\u011fine y\u00f6nelik tahmin y\u00fcr\u00fctmek olduk\u00e7a zor. Ancak, Medvedev’ in ba\u015fkanl\u0131\u011f\u0131n halefi oldu\u011fu art\u0131k\u00a0a\u00e7\u0131k\u00e7a biliniyor. E\u011fer Medvedev ger\u00e7ekten ba\u015fkan olabilirse yani\u00a0ba\u015fkanl\u0131k g\u00f6revini yapmas\u0131na izin verilirse ben yan\u0131lm\u0131\u015f olaca\u011f\u0131m.\u00a0Ama b\u00f6yle bir durumda sadece \u00c7e\u00e7enya politikas\u0131 de\u011fil, Rusya’ n\u0131n bat\u0131ya y\u00f6nelik politikas\u0131 da de\u011fi\u015fecektir. Medvedev Putin’ den ho\u015flanm\u0131yor ve Putin’ in \u00c7e\u00e7enya’ da y\u00fcr\u00fctt\u00fc\u011f\u00fc korkun\u00e7 sava\u015f\u0131 ve orada i\u015flenen t\u00fcm su\u00e7lar\u0131 Medvedev’ in y\u00fcklenmek isteyece\u011fini sanm\u0131yorum.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka:\u00a0Fakat\u00a0Medvedev Putin’ e itaat etmeden Kremlin’ in politikalar\u0131n\u0131 de\u011fi\u015ftirmesine olanak var m\u0131?<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev:<\/strong> Elbette, bu Rusya’ daki \u00f6yle bir gelenektir ki, Kremlin’\u00a0e\u00a0girmek isteyen ki\u015fi\u00a0o kap\u0131y\u0131 d\u0131\u015far\u0131dan a\u00e7amaz, o kap\u0131lar size i\u00e7eriden a\u00e7\u0131lmal\u0131d\u0131r. Bu nedenle o kap\u0131dan i\u00e7eri girdikten sonra de\u011fi\u015fimi ger\u00e7ekle\u015ftirmeniz m\u00fcmk\u00fcnd\u00fcr.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: \u00c7e\u00e7enya hakk\u0131nda konu\u015fal\u0131m. D\u00fcnya medyas\u0131nda oldu\u011fu gibi Polonya medyas\u0131nda da art\u0131k Kafkasya Cumhuriyetleri’ nden haberler g\u00fcn ge\u00e7tik\u00e7e\u00a0azal\u0131yor. Bu durumun ard\u0131nda yatan neden Rus yetkililerin sava\u015f\u0131n sona erdi\u011fini iddia etmeleri ve\u00a0Moskova destekli h\u00fck\u00fcmetin ba\u015f\u0131 Kadirov’ unda bu durumu destekler a\u00e7\u0131klamalar yapmas\u0131 olabilir mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev:<\/strong> Kesinlikle. Ramzan Kadirov Putin taraf\u0131ndan atanan bir isim ve Putin’ in sava\u015f su\u00e7lar\u0131na ortakl\u0131k ediyor.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: \u00c7e\u00e7enya’ da bug\u00fcnk\u00fc\u00a0ger\u00e7ek durum nedir? \u00c7e\u00e7enya’ da olanlara ili\u015fkin haberler alam\u0131yor olmam\u0131z sava\u015f\u0131n sona erdi\u011fine mi i\u015faret ediyor?<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev: <\/strong>Elbette ki hay\u0131r, sava\u015f uzun s\u00fcredir devam ediyor. Putin ve \u00e7evresi 2000 y\u0131l\u0131ndan bu yana sava\u015f\u0131n bitti\u011fini iddia ediyor. Bug\u00fcn hala\u00a0\u00c7e\u00e7enya’ da Rus askerlerinin hava destekli top\u00e7u sald\u0131r\u0131lar\u0131na devam etti\u011fini a\u00e7\u0131k\u00e7a ifade edebilirim.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: \u00d6zellikle Rus medyas\u0131nda ve Rus otoritelerince yap\u0131lan a\u00e7\u0131klamalarda \u00c7e\u00e7en direni\u015f hareketinin ter\u00f6r \u00f6rg\u00fct\u00fc El-Kaide ile ba\u011flant\u0131s\u0131 oldu\u011funa ili\u015fkin bilgiler var. Bunlar\u0131n do\u011frulu\u011fu nedir?<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev<\/strong>:\u00a0Bu Ruslar\u0131n yeni bir propogandas\u0131. Art\u0131k Rusya\u00a0ve FSB insanlar\u0131n zihninde, \u00c7e\u00e7enlerin \u00e7a\u011flar boyunca ter\u00f6ristlerle\u00a0ba\u011flant\u0131s\u0131 oldu\u011fu fikrini yerle\u015ftirmeye \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131yor.\u00a01944 y\u0131l\u0131nda da Stalin \u00c7e\u00e7en halk\u0131n\u0131\u00a0Nazilerle i\u015fbirli\u011fi i\u00e7erisinde olmakla su\u00e7lam\u0131\u015f ve s\u00fcrg\u00fcne g\u00f6ndermi\u015fti, oysa bug\u00fcn herkes \u00c7e\u00e7enlerin Nazilerle i\u015fbirli\u011fi yapmad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 biliyor. Ter\u00f6rizm bug\u00fcn art\u0131k\u00a0global bir sorun\u00a0 ve Putin, \u00c7e\u00e7en halk\u0131n\u0131n \u00f6zg\u00fcrl\u00fck m\u00fccadelesini\u00a0ter\u00f6rizmle ba\u011fda\u015ft\u0131r\u0131p \u00c7e\u00e7en halk\u0131n\u0131n ba\u011f\u0131ms\u0131zl\u0131k m\u00fccadelesini arka planda tutmaya \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131yor.\u00a0Kesin bir dille\u00a0ifade edebilirim ki, ne h\u00fck\u00fcmetimiz ne de silahl\u0131 kuvvetlerimiz hi\u00e7 bir ter\u00f6rist \u00f6rg\u00fct ile ba\u011flant\u0131 i\u00e7erisinde de\u011fildir ve El-Kaide de buna dahildir.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: Ama Shamil Basaev Beslan’ da ba\u015far\u0131l\u0131 bir eylem organize ettiklerini ifade ederek sizin a\u00e7\u0131klamalar\u0131n\u0131z\u0131n tam tersi s\u00f6zler s\u00f6ylemi\u015fti.<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev<\/strong>: Hay\u0131r, ben sadece \u00c7e\u00e7en h\u00fck\u00fcmetinin ter\u00f6ristlerle i\u015fbirli\u011fi i\u00e7erisinde olmad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 ifade ediyorum. Beslan olay\u0131 t\u00fcm d\u00fcnya i\u00e7in oldu\u011fu gibi bizim a\u00e7\u0131m\u0131zdan da tam bir \u015foktu. Ve dahas\u0131 bu eylem Shamil’ in grubunda sorumluluk verdi\u011fi insanlarla son ili\u015fkisi oldu, bu eylemden sonra kimi isimler m\u00fccadeleden uzakla\u015ft\u0131r\u0131ld\u0131.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: \u015eu anda siz \u0130ngiltere’ de s\u00fcrg\u00fcn hayat\u0131 ya\u015f\u0131yorsunuz, \u00e7ok say\u0131da insan hayat\u0131n\u0131 kaybetti, \u00c7e\u00e7enler Aslan Maskhadov gibi ba\u011f\u0131ms\u0131zl\u0131\u011f\u0131n sembol\u00fc olmu\u015f bir ismi yitirdi.\u00a0Sizin \u015fimdiki kadar etkinizin olmad\u0131\u011f\u0131 90’l\u0131 y\u0131llarda ba\u011f\u0131ms\u0131zl\u0131k i\u00e7in Rusya ile anla\u015fma yoluna gidilemez miydi?<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev<\/strong>:\u00a0Bu sava\u015f ne \u00c7e\u00e7en ulusunun\u00a0ne de \u00c7e\u00e7en y\u00f6netiminin tercihi de\u011fildi. 1990 y\u0131l\u0131nda \u00c7e\u00e7en\u00a0h\u00fck\u00fcmeti bu sava\u015fa mani olmak\u00a0i\u00e7in yap\u0131labilecek her\u015feyi en do\u011fru \u015fekilde yapt\u0131. Cohar Dudaev defalarca Yeltsin ile \u00c7e\u00e7enya’ n\u0131n ba\u011f\u0131ms\u0131zl\u0131\u011f\u0131 ile ilgili t\u00fcm konular\u0131 tart\u0131\u015fmak amac\u0131yla g\u00f6r\u00fc\u015fme talebinde bulundu <\/strong>ama Yeltsin ve \u00e7evresi i\u00e7in bu sava\u015f gerekliydi. Ve dahas\u0131 bu sava\u015fa da\u00a0Ruslar\u00a0ba\u015flad\u0131. \u0130kinci Rus-\u00c7e\u00e7en sava\u015f\u0131 da korkun\u00e7 nedenlerden \u00f6t\u00fcr\u00fc ba\u015flad\u0131: Volgodon, Buynaks ve Moskova’ da Rus gizli servisince patlat\u0131lan bombalarla, \u00c7e\u00e7enlere kar\u015f\u0131 y\u00fcr\u00fct\u00fclen anti-ter\u00f6r operasyonlar\u0131 lideri Putin’ e pop\u00fclarite kazand\u0131rmak ana gayeydi. E\u011fer ba\u011f\u0131ms\u0131zl\u0131k hakk\u0131nda konu\u015facaksak, elbette bizim tarifsiz kay\u0131plar\u0131m\u0131z oldu. 42 bini \u00e7ocuk, 250 bin insan\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 yitirdik. Bunlar ger\u00e7eklerdir. Ancak ba\u011f\u0131ms\u0131zl\u0131\u011f\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 ilan etti\u011fimizde\u00a0halk\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 korkun\u00e7\u00a0bir sava\u015fta peri\u015fan etmek gibi bir maksad\u0131m\u0131z yoktu, \u015fu anda da olmad\u0131\u011f\u0131 gibi. Ruslar \u00c7e\u00e7enleri farkl\u0131 bir bayrak alt\u0131nda tutuyor g\u00f6r\u00fcnse de ger\u00e7ekte Ruslar \u00c7e\u00e7enya’ y\u0131 asla kontrol edemiyor. Evet, \u00c7e\u00e7enya i\u015fgal alt\u0131nda ama boyun e\u011fmi\u015f de\u011fil.<\/p>\n T\u00fcm sava\u015flar s\u00f6m\u00fcrgecidir, e\u011fer\u00a0s\u00f6m\u00fcrgecilik\u00a0pe\u015finde iseniz sava\u015f bunun ka\u00e7\u0131n\u0131lmaz y\u00f6ntemidir. Ruslar da s\u00f6m\u00fcrgecilik pe\u015finde ancak \u00c7e\u00e7enya\u00a0\u00a0ger\u00e7ekten\u00a0Ruslar\u00a0taraf\u0131ndan zaptedilemedi ve orada Ruslar da ya\u015fam\u0131yor. Rus otoriteleri \u00c7e\u00e7enya’ da akla gelebilecek her\u015feyi yapt\u0131. Orada ya\u015fayan Ruslar\u0131 bile \u00f6ld\u00fcrd\u00fc ki \u00c7e\u00e7enlerle aralar\u0131nda bir husumet do\u011furmaya \u00e7abalad\u0131. Bug\u00fcn \u00c7e\u00e7enya’ y\u0131 ele ge\u00e7irmek isteyen Rus otoritelerinin politikas\u0131 Rus \u00c7arlar\u0131n\u0131n\u00a0d\u00f6nemlerinden\u00a0al\u0131nma. \u00c7ocuklu\u011fumuzda kendi dilimiz olan \u00c7e\u00e7enceyi konu\u015fmam\u0131za izin verilmedi\u011fini hat\u0131rl\u0131yorum. E\u011fer ula\u015f\u0131m ara\u00e7lar\u0131nda biri sizin \u00c7e\u00e7ence konu\u015ftu\u011funuzu duysa hemen gelip kafan\u0131za vururdu. Biz t\u00fcm bask\u0131lara ve kay\u0131plar\u0131m\u0131za ra\u011fmen\u00a0kimli\u011fimizi korumaya \u00e7abalad\u0131k. \u0130kinci D\u00fcnya Sava\u015f\u0131 s\u0131ras\u0131nda Fransa ve Norve\u00e7 h\u00fck\u00fcmetleri \u00fclkelerinin d\u0131\u015f\u0131ndan m\u00fccadeleyi y\u00f6nettiler. Bug\u00fcn biz de ayn\u0131 \u015feyi yap\u0131yoruz, belki ben ve baz\u0131 arkada\u015flar\u0131m \u00fclkemiz d\u0131\u015f\u0131nday\u0131z ancak m\u00fccadelemizden kopmad\u0131k.<\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka: G\u00fcvenli\u011finizden endi\u015fe duyuyor musunuz sorusuyla kapan\u0131\u015f\u0131 yapal\u0131m.<\/strong><\/p>\n Zakaev<\/strong>:\u00a0Anna Politkovskaya, Aleksander Litvinenko ve ben Rusya’ n\u0131n d\u00fc\u015fman listesinde yer al\u0131yoruz.\u00a0Bu listede yer alan Politkovskaya ve Litvinenko \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcld\u00fc. Rusya Federasyonu Ba\u015fbakan I.Yard\u0131mc\u0131s\u0131 \u0130van Safranov, Anna Politkovskaya \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcld\u00fckten sonra\u00a0yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131 a\u00e7\u0131klama Rusya’ n\u0131n d\u00fc\u015fmanlar\u0131na ili\u015fkin bir listelerinin oldu\u011funu ifade etmi\u015fti.\u00a0Litvinenko cinayetini ara\u015ft\u0131ran \u0130ngiliz Scotland Yard Polis te\u015fkilat\u0131 da bu listenin varl\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 do\u011frulad\u0131. Litvinenko’ nun katili Andrei Lugovoy bug\u00fcn Duma Meclisi’ nde bir vekil ve Rus halk\u0131n\u0131 temsil ediyor. Bu sadece \u0130ngiltere’ ye de\u011fil t\u00fcm d\u00fcnyaya\u00a0meydan okumad\u0131r. Ayr\u0131ca bu tehdit sadece \u015fahs\u0131m\u0131za y\u00f6nelik de\u011fil ailemize ve arkada\u015flar\u0131m\u0131z\u0131 da i\u00e7ine al\u0131yor.\u00a0Ancak, bu olaylara ra\u011fmen i\u00e7imde bir korku ta\u015f\u0131m\u0131yorum, korkunun g\u00fcvenli\u011fim i\u00e7in bir faydas\u0131 olmad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 biliyorum. E\u011fer korkmu\u015f olsayd\u0131k bu rejimle kavgaya tutu\u015fmazd\u0131k.<\/p>\n 12.12.2007<\/strong><\/p>\n Grzegorz Slubowski <\/strong><\/p>\n Polskie Radio Jedynka<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"views":3888,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=279"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2385,"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279\/revisions\/2385"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=279"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=279"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.waynakh.com\/tr\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=279"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}